Text of Brett Ratner’s Interview With Michael Jackson

From Brett Ratner’s perspective

Genius isn’t simple. You pay for it. It’s unlikely that Mozart will be remembered less than Napoleon Bonaparte.

Michael Jackson understands the irony of it all. I’ve never seen anyone in my life who had such a passion and love for the world of entertainment in their chest. His work, his talent, and his insight are far more lasting than all those who are now turning against him.

Michael and I have been together for days, weeks, and months. Our relationship is built on the love we share for films. We watched many movies together. And the one we enjoy watching the most is “Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory” (the 1971 musical based on the 1964 story “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory”). We had gone on vacation. In the past, he had placed a film camera in front of my face and asked me questions. That’s something he does with his friends: he becomes a scientist and analyzes them through the questions he asks. He repeatedly asked me how my childhood dream took on the color of reality—why I wanted to become a director. So this time, I decided it was my turn to ask him about his childhood dreams.

After this interview, I went out and bought all the albums he mentioned, and listened to them. It made me understand Michael a bit more. What you are about to read is a very exclusive and personal conversation between two friends.

February 2004
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(The text below begins from the fifth paragraph, in relation to the video.)

Brett Ratner: Was there a teacher or someone who inspired you?
Michael: Yes, of course. Barry Gordy, Diana Ross, Thomas Edison, Walt Disney, James Brown, Jackie Wilson.

Brett Ratner: What did you learn from them?
Michael: I learned many things—that how to be deep-thinking, how to be creative, how to be lasting, how to be determined, how to have steel will and never give up, whatever the situation.

Brett Ratner: What was your first break in the music industry, and how did you get it?
Michael: Probably my first job… come on, I don’t remember those days. I was six years old. Maybe performing at Mr. Lucky’s cabaret. I think it was a cabaret… yeah, Mr. Lucky. We performed there.

Brett Ratner: And how did you get the chance to do that performance?
Michael: I don’t know. My father knows. I was very young.

Brett Ratner: What was the first big stroke of luck that happened to you?
Michael: Our first big chance was when Motown signed us. We had a test performance in Detroit, and Barry Gordy (the owner of Motown) brought all the stars we loved—stars we’d seen since childhood—to this small city in Indiana. Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson, The Miracles, The Temptations, and Stevie Wonder. They were all there. It was somewhere near an indoor pool in a big mansion, full of marble stones. We performed, and they lost their minds. They loved our performance. And Gordy said, “Boys, you got the contract.”

Brett Ratner: Do you remember that day?
Michael: Oh, I do.

Brett Ratner: What element in your job makes you work every day?
Michael: I want to work every day. Just the idea that with my work I create worlds. It’s like taking a piece of canvas—something blank, you know, a blank board. Then they give you paint, and you draw the design and splash color, and you create other worlds. I love that mindset. And that people see it and find themselves inside it.

Brett Ratner: What qualities in you made you end up in the position you’re in today?
Michael: Faith and iron determination. And persistence.

Brett Ratner: Very good. Great persistence. If you had known what you know now from the beginning, what would you change in your career?
Michael: What would I change? Let me think… I would practice more.

Brett Ratner: You would practice more?
Michael: I’ve practiced a lot.

Brett Ratner: You’ve pulled yourself through with practice, (Michael laughs), yet you say you would practice more?
(Michael shakes his head.)

Brett Ratner: What is the biggest lesson you learned?
Michael: That I shouldn’t trust everyone. I shouldn’t trust anyone in this industry. There are a lot of sharks. And recording companies steal from you. They play tricks. You have to keep an eye on what they’re doing. And it’s time for artists to stand up to them, because they completely misuse artists. Completely. They forget that it was artists who created the company, not that the company created the artists. Without talent, a company would be nothing but a few pieces of machinery and tools. They go after the kind of talent that people want to see.

Brett Ratner: Name some of your favorite albums.
Michael: My favorite albums are Sweet Not Crackers by Tchaikovsky and the best of Claude Debussy, which includes Claire de Lune, Arabesque (the “Arabesque” piece), and Afternoon of a Faun (the “Faun” goddess). I love Marvin Gaye’s album “What’s Going On,” James Brown’s concert at the Apollo, and the songs from the film Sound of Music (“Edelweiss” and “So Long, Farewell,” etc.). I love Rodgers and Hammerstein (the duo of musical theater writers in America in the 1940s and 1950s). I really love the composers of big theaters. I love Holland-Dozier-Holland (a trio of composers and producers in America in the 1960s) who worked at Motown and were geniuses. And many other great composers.

Brett Ratner: Which contemporary big albums do you like?
Michael: It’s hard to say because today’s albums have one or two good songs, and the rest are garbage.

Brett Ratner: From the older ones… for example Marvin Gaye or Sly.
Michael: I like Sly and Family Stone (a rock music group in America from the 1960s to the 1980s)—I like all of their work. Stevie Wonder is a genius.

Brett Ratner: Which one of his albums?
Michael: All of them. Talking Book. Life Is a City. I forgot the name of his album. It’s great. I think it was a song from the album Innervisions. When I heard that song, I told myself, “I can do this. And I think I can do this on a global level.”

Brett Ratner: Really?
Michael: Really. And when the Bee Gees (a successful music group made up of three brothers—Barry, Robin, and Maurice Gibb) showed up in the 1970s, their music made my work. I cried to their songs. I knew all their notes, all their musical tools by heart.

(Brett Ratner sings: … “This broken heart”)
(Michael sings: … “How will you heal?”)
(Brett Ratner sings: … “This broken heart”)

Michael: And (sings) “How will you stop the rain from falling?” I love it. (singing along with Ratner) “How will you stop the sun from shining? What is it that turns the world?” I love this song. And when they sang Saturday Night Fever, it completely made my work. I said, “I have to do this. I know I can do it.” And with the trailer (Michael’s successful album in the 1980s, with more than 140 million copies— the best-selling album in music history), we succeeded. I started writing songs again. I wrote Billie Jean, I wrote Beat It, I wrote Staying Alive. I just wrote and wrote. It was fun and interesting.

Source: When you were a kid, was there someone’s poster on your bedroom wall?
Michael: Yeah. Brooke Shields. (the model and actress who later developed a close friendly relationship with Michael.) I had her poster everywhere. My sisters were jealous and they took her posters off the wall and tore them up.

Brett Ratner: What big shows and concerts have you seen?
Michael: James Brown, Jackie Wilson. They are real showmen and entertainers. Their work makes the hair stand up on your skin.

Brett Ratner: James Brown? Where did you see him?
Michael: We always went backstage after he finished his performance on stage, as newcomers. I would stand in the corners of the stage and learn all his moves carefully.

Brett Ratner: Were they television shows?
Michael: No, at the Apollo (the theater in New York).

Brett Ratner: The shows for newcomers at the Apollo. And you watched your performance?
Michael: Yeah, and also Jackie Wilson. All of them. The Delfonics, The Temptations.

Brett Ratner: But do you remember any special show? Did you also see The Temptations?
Michael: Yeah.

Brett Ratner: But was there a show that made you say, “Wow! For God’s sake!” after seeing it?
Michael: James Brown’s and Jackie Wilson’s performances.

Brett Ratner: At the Apollo?
Michael: Yeah, they made me cry. I had never seen anything like that. Such passion and excitement. Such fever. Such feeling. It was like they were traveling on a higher, more spiritual level. Like they were in a trance and had the audience in their hands. I loved how powerful they were and how they controlled the audience with it. When they sang, tears streamed from their eyes. They were drowning in the music.

Brett Ratner: Tell me some of the songs you like.
Michael: My favorite songs of all those years? I really love Burt Bacharach’s songs. All of Motown’s songs. Beatles songs like Eleanor Rigby, Yesterday. All of the Supremes’ work (the girl group featuring Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard in America in the 1960s). All these songs are great. I think the 1960s had the best melodies in history. From Peter, Paul and Mary (the trio of singers in America) to the rest of them. Mom and dads (a vocal group made up of two women and two men in America) were amazing. The Drifters (a vocal group in America in the 1950s) are a bit older, but I love their songs, “In Broadway,” it’s amazing. I think their simple songs are the best. I like Alfi. It’s very beautiful. There are so many songs I love. Movies too. We have a lot of big movies.

Brett Ratner: Okay, give a few tips that would be useful for beginners in the music industry.
Michael: Believe in yourselves. Study the work of the greats and become bigger than them. Be a scientist, examine things closely. Scrutinize.

Brett Ratner: You said something else before: “Don’t give up.”
Michael: Under no circumstances. No matter if the whole world is against you, or if it bothers you and tells you that you won’t succeed. Believe in yourself. Whatever happens. Some great people who made their names in this world went through such things. They were told they wouldn’t succeed, they wouldn’t get anywhere. They mocked the Wright brothers. They laughed at Thomas Edison. They laughed at Walt Disney. They made jokes about Henry Ford. They told him he was foolish. They kicked Disney out of school. These people went that far. These same people shaped our culture, social customs, norms, our way of life, and our behavior—and changed them.

And I think God plants the seeds of these things on the earth through people. And I think I’m the one who has to bring a little happiness and a way to escape reality, a little pleasure, a little magic. Because without entertainment, what would the world be like? For me, it becomes a completely different world. I love entertainment. And I love movies more than other forms of entertainment. The power and magic of cinema is the greatest and most expressive form of art. I think it touches the human spirit. Music and cinema are the most meaningful forms of art. It’s almost like religion. You get deeply involved in it; it carries you away. When you’re in the movie theater, you become someone else. It has that effect on you. It’s powerful. I think it’s strong. I love it.

Brett Ratner: When you affect your audience, they respond to you.
Michael Jackson: Yes, they live through the performance. They are part of it. They forget they’re sitting in their seats.

Brett Ratner: Watching a film can affect life.
Michael: All life can change life.

Brett Ratner: Yes, I remember that when I was seven, I saw Star Wars in the cinema. For Prince and Paris (Michael’s children), who are watching this film today on DVD after 27 years, it’s a different experience. I saw it when it first came out—in that time of shock and amazement. Nobody had ever seen anything like it. Some parts of the film I didn’t understand the first time, and I had to go back to the cinema to figure it out. When I was seven, I was disappointed and miserable. Watching that film was an unforgettable memory. When you see something like that for the first time, it will definitely affect your life. Like hearing a song or seeing a performer for the first time. Watching James Brown and that moment when his tears start to fall, hearing his song on the radio after 20 years is different.

Michael: I don’t know how to say how incredible it was. I really loved my great showmen and entertainers. Great performers, great storytellers. Just watching them makes you lose your mind. You get caught in it. I love it. They are children of the stage.

Brett Ratner: Like Frank Sinatra.
Michael: Yeah. These guys are cool. And Sammy Davis— I really love him. It’s all magic. Real magic.

Source: eMJey.com